TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM

[Screwball]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=395223

Rick Dudley is expected to become the next assistant general manager of the Montreal Canadiens. However, the move from Toronto to Montreal is complicated.

Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke and newly appointed Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin are in discussions over Dudley's jump from one team to the other.

Dudley, a member of Toronto's management team, has an "out" in his contract with the Leafs, but has done extensive work for Toronto on the upcoming NHL Draft and sources say Burke would prefer Dudley not join the Canadiens until after the Draft.

Well, this is an unfortunate situation for the Leafs to be in.  Even if they get their wish and keep Rick until after the draft, you could question where his heart will be in terms of releasing all of his info.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Similar situation happened to Chiarelli in Boston. He had to wait a little bit after July 1st before he could have moved from Ottawa to Boston. Still, I'm sure he made it known that he wanted the Bruins to peruse Chara heavily on July 1st.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Even if they get their wish and keep Rick until after the draft, you could question where his heart will be in terms of releasing all of his info.

I would imagine a lot of his work has already been recorded and everything. But the biggest thing would be that he keeps Toronto's interests quiet. Montreal drafts just ahead of the Leafs in every round they still have their original picks in, so I'm sure Burke wouldn't be pleased if the Habs just happened to always select players he had his eye on.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

Even if they get their wish and keep Rick until after the draft, you could question where his heart will be in terms of releasing all of his info.

I would imagine a lot of his work has already been recorded and everything. But the biggest thing would be that he keeps Toronto's interests quiet. Montreal drafts just ahead of the Leafs in every round they still have their original picks in, so I'm sure Burke wouldn't be pleased if the Habs just happened to always select players he had his eye on.

Yeah this.  It's less that the Leafs need him and more that the Leafs need him to be quiet.  Personally, I don't think Dudley should be relied on for anything at this point.  It's not that I think he'll be anything less than professional heading into his departure, but I'd just rather him be on the shelf until after the draft.

 

[cw]

In a somewhat similar situation, Peter Chiarelli of the Sens started working for the Bruins in mid July of 2006, after the draft and after the first couple of weeks of free agency - even though he was named the Bruins GM in the previous month of May.

That's what I would hope Burke would arrange here.

I think Dudley's a pretty good hockey exec and would not be surprised to see him as a GM again one day.

 

[maplesyrup]

While I understand that the league has outlawed compensation for executive moves I'm curious if the talks between Burke and Bergevin might result in a trade anyway. I mean, hypothetically speaking, let's say the Leafs trade the #5 pick and a prospect the the Canadians for the #3 pick and a prospect. The onus would then be on the league to prove that the prospects involved don't balance out the swap in picks and I'm not sure they would be able too assuming the there wasn't something obviously fishy there. Or, let's say, the Habs traded the negotiating rights to I don't know, Travis Moen to the Leafs for a 7th round pick or a prospect with next to no chance of making the NHL (which might be close to the right price anyway.) Basically, I'm wondering if the dialogue between the two GMs could spin into something that the league would have a difficult time proving was compensation rather than just standard hockey trade.         

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

 

[Zee]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

I don't know, Habs would have their own scouting team in place and a list of players they're already targeting for each round.  Unless Dudley comes in and totally changes their mind on the type of player they want, he won't influence the Habs draft that much.  They should know who they want at this point.  Also, it's tough for him to "keep his mouth shut", sure he might not *say* anything about who the Leafs want, but if there's an attractive player that the Leafs are targeting and is flying under the radar so to speak, there's nothing stopping him from mentioning that player to the Habs team if they know nothing about him.  Again though, unless he does an incredible selling job, the Habs team would have already decided what type of player they want.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

I don't know, Habs would have their own scouting team in place and a list of players they're already targeting for each round.  Unless Dudley comes in and totally changes their mind on the type of player they want, he won't influence the Habs draft that much.  They should know who they want at this point.  Also, it's tough for him to "keep his mouth shut", sure he might not *say* anything about who the Leafs want, but if there's an attractive player that the Leafs are targeting and is flying under the radar so to speak, there's nothing stopping him from mentioning that player to the Habs team if they know nothing about him.  Again though, unless he does an incredible selling job, the Habs team would have already decided what type of player they want.

If he's be coming in as an assistant GM, his opinion would clearly be valued within the organization.  I would think he could definitely change gears for the Habs if he wanted to, unless the the potential draftees he liked were "Leaf need" specific fits.

 

[Zee]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

I don't know, Habs would have their own scouting team in place and a list of players they're already targeting for each round.  Unless Dudley comes in and totally changes their mind on the type of player they want, he won't influence the Habs draft that much.  They should know who they want at this point.  Also, it's tough for him to "keep his mouth shut", sure he might not *say* anything about who the Leafs want, but if there's an attractive player that the Leafs are targeting and is flying under the radar so to speak, there's nothing stopping him from mentioning that player to the Habs team if they know nothing about him.  Again though, unless he does an incredible selling job, the Habs team would have already decided what type of player they want.

If he's be coming in as an assistant GM, his opinion would clearly be valued within the organization.  I would think he could definitely change gears for the Habs if he wanted to, unless the the potential draftees he liked were "Leaf need" specific fits.

At this point teams would have their own list and have done TONS of work preparing for the draft.  They're not going to throw out their entire strategy because Dudley comes in and says so.  In any event they're picking 3rd and Leafs 5th, they have their first pick already decided, nothing the Leafs can do anyway.  After the first round it's a crap shoot of selecting players.

 

[maplesyrup]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

I don't know, Habs would have their own scouting team in place and a list of players they're already targeting for each round.  Unless Dudley comes in and totally changes their mind on the type of player they want, he won't influence the Habs draft that much.  They should know who they want at this point.  Also, it's tough for him to "keep his mouth shut", sure he might not *say* anything about who the Leafs want, but if there's an attractive player that the Leafs are targeting and is flying under the radar so to speak, there's nothing stopping him from mentioning that player to the Habs team if they know nothing about him.  Again though, unless he does an incredible selling job, the Habs team would have already decided what type of player they want.

If he's be coming in as an assistant GM, his opinion would clearly be valued within the organization.  I would think he could definitely change gears for the Habs if he wanted to, unless the the potential draftees he liked were "Leaf need" specific fits.

At this point teams would have their own list and have done TONS of work preparing for the draft.  They're not going to throw out their entire strategy because Dudley comes in and says so.  In any event they're picking 3rd and Leafs 5th, they have their first pick already decided, nothing the Leafs can do anyway.  After the first round it's a crap shoot of selecting players.

The problem is that the Habs would really have the benefit of selecting players in all 7 rounds with the resources from two scouting departments.

 

[Zee]

He was always going to be a short term employee anyway. But I'm with Carlton, he better keep his mouth shut until after the draft and free agency.

I don't know, Habs would have their own scouting team in place and a list of players they're already targeting for each round.  Unless Dudley comes in and totally changes their mind on the type of player they want, he won't influence the Habs draft that much.  They should know who they want at this point.  Also, it's tough for him to "keep his mouth shut", sure he might not *say* anything about who the Leafs want, but if there's an attractive player that the Leafs are targeting and is flying under the radar so to speak, there's nothing stopping him from mentioning that player to the Habs team if they know nothing about him.  Again though, unless he does an incredible selling job, the Habs team would have already decided what type of player they want.

If he's be coming in as an assistant GM, his opinion would clearly be valued within the organization.  I would think he could definitely change gears for the Habs if he wanted to, unless the the potential draftees he liked were "Leaf need" specific fits.

At this point teams would have their own list and have done TONS of work preparing for the draft.  They're not going to throw out their entire strategy because Dudley comes in and says so.  In any event they're picking 3rd and Leafs 5th, they have their first pick already decided, nothing the Leafs can do anyway.  After the first round it's a crap shoot of selecting players.

The problem is that the Habs would really have the benefit of selecting players in all 7 rounds with the resources from two scouting departments.

Given the Leafs drafting history, I would think Dudley would throw out our sheet once he got to Montreal. 

 

[Corn Flake]

In a somewhat similar situation, Peter Chiarelli of the Sens started working for the Bruins in mid July of 2006, after the draft and after the first couple of weeks of free agency - even though he was named the Bruins GM in the previous month of May.

That's what I would hope Burke would arrange here.

I think Dudley's a pretty good hockey exec and would not be surprised to see him as a GM again one day.

I would hope for something similar as well.  Letting Dudley walk to the Habs right now would be a terrible choice, both for the Leafs losing someone they have leaned on heavily to prepare for a very critical draft and off-season and to let him go to a division rival drafting 2 spots ahead of us, along with any strategy or secrets Burke has around who he wants to pick, to move up down or otherwise, etc. 

IMO it would be the worst decision made as GM to let this happen right now. 

 

[Deebo]

In a somewhat similar situation, Peter Chiarelli of the Sens started working for the Bruins in mid July of 2006, after the draft and after the first couple of weeks of free agency - even though he was named the Bruins GM in the previous month of May.

That's what I would hope Burke would arrange here.

I think Dudley's a pretty good hockey exec and would not be surprised to see him as a GM again one day.

I would hope for something similar as well.  Letting Dudley walk to the Habs right now would be a terrible choice, both for the Leafs losing someone they have leaned on heavily to prepare for a very critical draft and off-season and to let him go to a division rival drafting 2 spots ahead of us, along with any strategy or secrets Burke has around who he wants to pick, to move up down or otherwise, etc. 

IMO it would be the worst decision made as GM to let this happen right now.

If dudley's contract has an out clause, then its not really burke's decision,

 

[Corn Flake]

If dudley's contract has an out clause, then its not really burke's decision,

True, assuming it's a generic clause he can use any time.  Probably isn't though.

Also, even if there is a full out clause, Bergevin might want to play nice with Burke anyway and not start his tenure by stealing an Exec from a rival at this most critical juncture.  Might be why so far there is only talk between the two GM's and Dudley doesn't have an offer from Mtl yet.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

There are rumblings that Dudley's contract allows him to accept a new job after the Leafs season is over by giving 30 days notice.  It is impossible to tell how accurate this is, but assuming it is true then there is nothing Burke can do to stop Dudley from starting with Montreal prior to the draft.

It is interesting to note that Chicago is in a similar position, with Bergevin leaving a key position to join the Habs.  It is expected that the Black Hawks, Leafs and others will push for changes so that a key manager is not allowed to join a new team between the end of the season and the start of free agency on July 1. 

Even if that does come to pass, it would not affect the situation with Dudley.  If he leaves to join Montreal before the amateur draft, I suggest that we just grin and bear it and give him a nice parting gift; perhaps something like a 245 pound right hand defenseman with a cap hit of $4.5 million for the next two years.

 

[moon111]

To be fair, I think Montreal and Toronto should switch draft positions.

 

[Zee]

There are rumblings that Dudley's contract allows him to accept a new job after the Leafs season is over by giving 30 days notice.  It is impossible to tell how accurate this is, but assuming it is true then there is nothing Burke can do to stop Dudley from starting with Montreal prior to the draft.

It is interesting to note that Chicago is in a similar position, with Bergevin leaving a key position to join the Habs.  It is expected that the Black Hawks, Leafs and others will push for changes so that a key manager is not allowed to join a new team between the end of the season and the start of free agency on July 1. 

Even if that does come to pass, it would not affect the situation with Dudley.  If he leaves to join Montreal before the amateur draft, I suggest that we just grin and bear it and give him a nice parting gift; perhaps something like a 245 pound right hand defenseman with a cap hit of $4.5 million for the next two years.

Don't the Leafs have to give permission for the HAbs to offer Dudley a contract though?  As far as I've heard this past weekend, Dudley said he hasn't been contacted by the Habs.  Just don't give the Habs permission until a few days before the draft. Then Dudley has his 30 days notice which passes draft day.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

There are rumblings that Dudley's contract allows him to accept a new job after the Leafs season is over by giving 30 days notice.  It is impossible to tell how accurate this is, but assuming it is true then there is nothing Burke can do to stop Dudley from starting with Montreal prior to the draft.

It is interesting to note that Chicago is in a similar position, with Bergevin leaving a key position to join the Habs.  It is expected that the Black Hawks, Leafs and others will push for changes so that a key manager is not allowed to join a new team between the end of the season and the start of free agency on July 1. 

Even if that does come to pass, it would not affect the situation with Dudley.  If he leaves to join Montreal before the amateur draft, I suggest that we just grin and bear it and give him a nice parting gift; perhaps something like a 245 pound right hand defenseman with a cap hit of $4.5 million for the next two years.

Don't the Leafs have to give permission for the HAbs to offer Dudley a contract though?  As far as I've heard this past weekend, Dudley said he hasn't been contacted by the Habs.  Just don't give the Habs permission until a few days before the draft. Then Dudley has his 30 days notice which passes draft day.

As a courtesy, the Habs should give the Leafs notice that they plan to contact Dudley.  I don't think that they need the Leafs actual permission, since that would negate Dudley's right to take a new job.

I took Dudley's comments that he had not been contacted yet by the Habs with a large truckload of salt.  It reminded me of the free agents who sign a new contracts one minute after the free agency period begins and we are expected to believe that their new teams were not in touch with them and their agents until just then.

FWIW, the Leafs and Habs cannot switch draft positions since there is a league rule that there is no compensation when an executive moves from one team to another.

 

[bustaheims]

As a courtesy, the Habs should give the Leafs notice that they plan to contact Dudley.  I don't think that they need the Leafs actual permission, since that would negate Dudley's right to take a new job.

Until such time as Dudley gives his notice and the 30 day period after that has passed, he is under contract to the Toronto Maple Leafs, and any other organization requires their permission to approach him and offer him a position. It's not a courtesy, it's the rules. Going around those rules is considered tampering.