Kadri for Berglund?

[Redleaf]

Kyper says Leafs have enquired on Berglund for Kadri
12:31pm - 18 Jun 14

Discuss.....

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Any time you can trade for a worse, older player, you have to do it.

 

[nutman]

I know things are slow but wow!!. We need to stay young and, improve. Kadri is not going to be a give away if he is dealt.

 

[Zee]

It'll be tough seeing any bright linings for the Leafs if they trade away Kadri and get something worse in return.  I had resigned myself to Kadri being traded, but I always assumed it would be part of a package that brings back something significant.  The old adage "you can't get something for nothing" and all that.  If Kadri is dealt on a one for one deal for some guy I barely even heard of, who happens to be older and his stats don't look particularly inspiring...ugh

 

[Kin]

I wouldn't be a fan of this trade as I think Kadri has the potential to be something significantly more than what we saw last year but I wouldn't be too quick to call Berglund worse than Kadri right now.

 

[Redleaf]

I wouldn't be a fan of this trade as I think Kadri has the potential to be something significantly more than what we saw last year but I wouldn't be too quick to call Berglund worse than Kadri right now.

Agreed.

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

 

[L K]

I wouldn't be a fan of this trade as I think Kadri has the potential to be something significantly more than what we saw last year but I wouldn't be too quick to call Berglund worse than Kadri right now.

Agreed.

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

He has size...but doesn't use it.  He also gets the 'defensive skills' label which I think a lot of bigger forward get regardless of their actual defensive performance.  He's not bad defensively...he's also 3.5 years older than Kadri though.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

I think it's likely Kadri tops out at what he is right now, a .60 PPG kind of player, which Berglund has been a couple times before too.  So, at best, I think it would be a lateral move if you don't factor in their respective ages but once you do it wouldn't make sense (at least not as a 1 for 1).

 

[Kin]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

Unless Kadri gets back to his 2013 scoring self, I'm not sure how big a gap there is. They scored at pretty similar rates in a per/60 sense despite Berglund's most common linemates being Schwarz and Tarasenko and Kadri's being Kessel and JVR.

 

[L K]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

I think you need to be careful with the defensive performance of certain players who play for a coach who implements a very good team defensive system too.  Berglund is a decent defensive player but is he is the same kind of player under Carlyle?  I doubt it.

 

[Kin]

He has size...but doesn't use it.  He also gets the 'defensive skills' label which I think a lot of bigger forward get regardless of their actual defensive performance.  He's not bad defensively...he's also 3.5 years older than Kadri though.

I think Ken Hitchcock is a pretty good judge of defensive hockey and I don't think Berlgund would be getting a regular shift on what's been one of the more effective PK units in hockey over the last while without being a pretty solid defender.

 

[L K]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

Unless Kadri gets back to his 2013 scoring self, I'm not sure how big a gap there is. They scored at pretty similar rates in a per/60 sense despite Berglund's most common linemates being Schwarz and Tarasenko and Kadri's being Kessel and JVR.

No doubt that Kadri struggled when paired with Kessel/JVR over November and December (not all of that time was with them but he had 10 points in 23 games). 

Off of that line where he struggled he put up 40 points in 55 games.  Not quite his 44 points in 48 games, but it might be an indication that Kadri either couldn't handle the responsibilities of the #1 line, or he works better being the go-to offensive weapon on his line, which he clearly isn't when paired with Kessel.

And I don't think Tarasenko and Schwartz should be passed off as mediocre linemates, both are young and had 20+ goal seasons so it isn't like Berglund was paired with useless players.  Both outscored Berglund by a reasonable amount (combined 94 points to Berglund's 32).

 

[Redleaf]

He has size...but doesn't use it.  He also gets the 'defensive skills' label which I think a lot of bigger forward get regardless of their actual defensive performance.  He's not bad defensively...he's also 3.5 years older than Kadri though.

I think Ken Hitchcock is a pretty good judge of defensive hockey and I don't think Berlgund would be getting a regular shift on what's been one of the more effective PK units in hockey over the last while without being a pretty solid defender.

Suddenly the proposed deal isn't looking as lopsided as it did at first glance.

I think the Leafs are just looking for better defenders, at all positions.

 

[Kin]

And I don't think Tarasenko and Schwartz should be passed off as mediocre linemates, both are young and had 20+ goal seasons so it isn't like Berglund was paired with useless players.  Both outscored Berglund by a reasonable amount (combined 94 points to Berglund's 32).

I wasn't trying to pass them off as mediocre, just not quite as good as JVR/Kessel.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If it's size the Leafs want, Berglund has more. Does he also play a good two way game?

Berglund has more size, but Kadri is definitely more physical so I'm not sure that does much for them. Defensively he's probably slightly above average but it's not a big enough gap to make up for the difference offensively.

Unless Kadri gets back to his 2013 scoring self, I'm not sure how big a gap there is. They scored at pretty similar rates in a per/60 sense despite Berglund's most common linemates being Schwarz and Tarasenko and Kadri's being Kessel and JVR.

No doubt that Kadri struggled when paired with Kessel/JVR over November and December (not all of that time was with them but he had 10 points in 23 games). 

Off of that line where he struggled he put up 40 points in 55 games.  Not quite his 44 points in 48 games, but it might be an indication that Kadri either couldn't handle the responsibilities of the #1 line, or he works better being the go-to offensive weapon on his line, which he clearly isn't when paired with Kessel.

And I don't think Tarasenko and Schwartz should be passed off as mediocre linemates, both are young and had 20+ goal seasons so it isn't like Berglund was paired with useless players.  Both outscored Berglund by a reasonable amount (combined 94 points to Berglund's 32).

Kadri's most common linemates were Lupul and Raymond.  Then Kessel, then JVR, though he spent almost as much time with Clarkson and Kulemin as with Kessel/JVR.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1289&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

Basically his linemates were kind of all over the place last season.

 

[L K]

He has size...but doesn't use it.  He also gets the 'defensive skills' label which I think a lot of bigger forward get regardless of their actual defensive performance.  He's not bad defensively...he's also 3.5 years older than Kadri though.

I think Ken Hitchcock is a pretty good judge of defensive hockey and I don't think Berlgund would be getting a regular shift on what's been one of the more effective PK units in hockey over the last while without being a pretty solid defender.

I'm not implying that it is entirely his system, just that it's a lot easier to be good defensively when your linemates are exactly where they are supposed to be 99% of the time.  That isn't going to happen in Toronto with this team, this coach, this system and Berglund would get exposed by that.  He would still likely be a better defender than most of the players on the team, but I'm just wary of buying into a player when they are making that kind of change.

 

[Boston Leaf]

how about No to that trade

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think it's even really a rumour.  Here's Kypreos' quote:

 

[Kin]

I'm not implying that it is entirely his system, just that it's a lot easier to be good defensively when your linemates are exactly where they are supposed to be 99% of the time.  That isn't going to happen in Toronto with this team, this coach, this system and Berglund would get exposed by that.  He would still likely be a better defender than most of the players on the team, but I'm just wary of buying into a player when they are making that kind of change.

I don't necessarily disagree, just that I think there's a finer line between "being good defensively" and "having the physical tools to fit into coach's defensive system effectively" than you're making it out to be.